23
Feb
10

Wow, I must be completely stupid…

Below is a comment and subsequent conversation which you may find interesting; or maybe not. Feel free to skip it.

Original writer:

Dear attorney general Beau Biden I hope you see to it that Dr Earl Bradley fries for his horrible crimes. 471 counts of rape and sexual exploitation to me warrants death. I know it’s not my place to judge but things like crimes against children make my blood boil. Had it have been my child he wouldn’t make it to court!!!!!!

Commenter 1:

i read about that this morning, just SICK!

Original writer:

I will never understand people that hurt children NEVER!!! I also have to ask where were the parents? Just horrible. It really breaks my heart.

Commenter 1:

well how was that dr able to take the 2 year old alone anyways!! Everytime I go to the dr I am there the WHOLE time..

Commenter 2:

I agree

Original writer:

That’s my point where were the parents. Some of them didn’t know their child had been abused until the police contactedthem for pictures to match them to the videos. I’m always with my kids and if a dr didn’t want me back my kid would not go.

Commenter 3:

WHAT?! OMG! Death is a little too easy on him.

Commenter 4:

AND the crep attorney who will defend him should be hung right along side. THERE IS NO DEFENSE for that animal

Commenter 5:

[Original writer] I had to google this, this guy is an absolute monster and God will punish him I just hope it’s not quick or swift. I agree he should be given the death sentence for these crimes time behind bars is just being to kind. My child or not if given the chance I would shoot him, or maybe not I have my own little one to look after. But none the less what an aboslutey horrible, monster!

According to the ABC article the parents were asked to stay in a separate room and the child was brought to another room by a nurse, so the bigger question is, Where the nurses involved?

Commenter 1:

I don’t know, but I would never let my kid go to the back without me..the whole point of going to the dr is for the parent to find out whats going on..

Commenter 5:

totally agree [commenter 1] what is the point of allowing the child in the back, he or she cannot speak for themselves to even say why they are there in the first place. I would have never let my child out of my sight.

Me:

I still don’t think he should be killed; he would, at least, be very good study material for criminal psychology.
And [Commenter 4], just because someone is accused of horrible crimes does not mean they have no right to a fair trial. Killing him does not help to prevent this sort of thing from happening int he future. Most people in our society know child molestation is a very serious offense, yet individuals such as this do so anyway. Why not figure out what triggers people to do this, then we can fix the problem and prevent others from behaving in this way. It isn’t enough to simply punish someone for a crime-we’ve done this for centuries and it does not eliminate crime; we must figure out why people commit such crimes to prevent others from doing the same thing.

Original writer:

I know that sometimes things happen to our kids and we have guilt for that. We can’t protect them from every hurt. But I think in this case it could have been avoided. I know i wouldn’t allow my child back alone to any place. I know he will face our maker and have to pay for what he has done. That alone gives me piece.

Me:

Oh, and [Commenter 4], it is a constitutional right for everyone accused of a crime to be provided or acquire legal representation; we cannot suspend constitutional rights to specific people just because they are accused of horrible crimes. They may, in fact, be innocent.

Commenter 6:

He, in fact, had video of his vicious attacks on these innocent children. So, NO, HE CANT BE INNOCENT!!!!

Original writer:

God only knows what [writer’s son] would say if he had to go back alone. I would never allow it. That to me should have sent up a huge flag.
Jared I’m sorry but I disagree. You don’t have kids so this doesn’t bother you like it does a parent. These children who were abused have been given a life sentence. This will haunt them until they die. It will alter there personality and there views of everything. He has taken their life. His should be taken as well. Crime will not stop until the justice system actually enforces the law for everyone with strict consequences.

Commenter 7:

KILL THE FUCKING CHILD MOLESTER. PERIOD. How can anyone say he doesnt deserve to DIE?
–“You wanna use him for good study material?” Study his sorry ass as the life leaves his body.

–“Fair trial?” Sure give him a fair trial and then kill his sorry ass.

–“Killing him won’tl prevent this from happening again.”BULLSHIT. He will never molest a kid again.

–“Figure out what triggers people to do this?” They are sick and do not deserve to breath the same air as your kid or anyone elses kid. The key word you used was trigger. CLICK.

–“It isn’t enough to simply punish someone for a crime?” I agree with you. FILL THE FUCKER. Why punish the taxpayers who will have to support his ass for the rest of his life in prison?

–“We must figure out why people commit such crimes.” I think we know they are sick fucker. KILL THE FUCKING CHILD MOLESTER.

Commenter 1:

there isn’t anything innocent about a person raping and molesting BABIES and then taping it..

Me:

[Original writer], I’m sorry, but your notion that punishment prevents crimes such as this is flagrantly wrong. It is what is known as the “economic theory of crime.” This has been studied extensively (Doob and Webster reviewed the research in an article in 2003-you can get it here: http://www.jstor.org/pss/1147698 ) and rejected. Yes, the children are likely terribly damaged by this, as are the parents of the children and the societies in which the children lived. Punishment only prevents crimes by rational agents, which criminals such as this are not. Almost every time punishment severity versus crime rates has been studied, no effect has been shown. This is summarized in the Doob/Webster paper which I cited. I have tons of additional ones I can send you, if you would like.

I am actually deeply offended by the notion that simply because I made a rational choice to not have children, I am thus ignored in this discussion as though I have nothing relevant to offer. Does it mean that just because you have not been President or a senator means you have nothing of value to contribute to political discourse?

And by the way, [Commenter 7], he won’t be the last one; our only chance of preventing these in the future is if we can figure our what environmental or genetic (or combination of them) factors result in this behavior.

Commenter 3:

Jared – I am sorry to say but you are a moron. If we figure out what causes it what are we going to do if people hide it?

Commenter 1:

I just think as a PARENT, when things like this happen..we want the worst punishment and we look at it, like it could have been our children..I think he should get the worst punishment and that would be death..He’s a monster!! You are not ignored from the conversation Jared, just being a parent makes you see the whole picture..

Me:

I’ve been called a moron tons of times, but strangely, it’s never explained precisely what part of my statements are “moronic.” I wonder why that is…

[Commenter 3], I would encourage you to find a way to hide gene expression and neuroimagining techniques of detecting propensity for specific behaviors and responses to specific visual cues. It would really be quite fascinating if you can change those voluntarily.

Commenter 1:

So Jared, are you saying we need to run tests on this monster and see why he did what he did?

Me:

Yes, you do want the worst punishment possible, this is called “vengeance” and it is a reflexive response to behaviors you find have damaged yourself or your offspring or your society which could impact yourself or your offspring, etc. It is an emotional and unsubstantiated action which does not effect the “whole picture.” The “whole picture” involves looking at an issue without being blinded by emotions and cultural expectations. I would argue that your specific empathy towards the parents could actually prevent you from seeing the whole picture.

If he is guilty, I think we should; we should simultaneously confine him to a prison sentence in a high security prison (for his own safety).

Commenter 1:

I am not going to argue, Hes a monster, needs to die and be tortured like he did those 100 babies..

Me:

But what would that accomplish, and wouldn’t that make the person carrying out said punishment just as guilty as he is of causing suffering?

Commenter 7:

“environmental or genetic (or combination of them) factors result in this behavior” Thats the truth.

ENVIRONMENTAL: In the world we live in now where a person can look on the internet and find anything (no matter now stupid or far fetched) to support his reasoning, well yeah the environment would be a big factor. Most normal people use common sense when trying to decide right from wrong. Other people rely on other idiots to do studies and spout their own sick version of the world over the internet these days. So i guess you choose your own environment, no matter how sick or stupid or ass backwards it is right? Today a person can find supporting facts (again, no matter how stupid or ass backwards it is)for anything….religion, politics, ..etc. Whatever the subject is, a person can always find something to back up his thinking…no matter how sick or perverted or stupid it is.

GENETIC: I guess there was some hidden sick gene he inherited from his dad that just sudden decided to pop up and say its ok to, (GRAPHIC WARNING) rub his dick on a 2 yr old girls pussy. Yeah, thats what one of the fathers was informed after he was shown a picture of his daughter. But I guess we can’t blame the guy for doing that, it was in his genes. Not his fault right? So lets keep our tax dollars at work and feed and cloth and house the genetic sick fucker so we can study him. We might be able to find another hidden gene inside him that will help us understand some people stupidity

My final thoughts…. Seems that we are living in a totally messed up world when a person can do something so horrible and people sit here and try to find websites that support their thoughts and beliefs as to why he should live or die. Yep it’s a free world to think and believe what we want. I guess its ok for people to think its the environment or genetics that caused him to do what he did. And its also a free world for a person to wanna keep a sick fuck like that around. It’s also a free world to think as other people do and say KILL THE FUCKING CHILD MOLESTING SICK BASTARD.

Commenter 1:

couldn’t have said it better, thanks [Commenter 7]

Commenter 4:

I can speak first hand. Crimes against men are punishable more sCoerverly than crimes against women. Because there was only 1 boy invovled, this sorry bastard will not get the punishment he deserves. Sorry you don’t have children (or maybe congrates on that decision) but I do have children and have lived this crime, so please, please DO NOT tell me he needs to be studied. Actually, I think a study has been done, and child molest/monsters have been questioned and even they will tell you ONCE A CHILD MOLESTER ALWAYS A CHILD MOLESTER. So from their own mouths, you can’t change them, so do away with them

Commenter 8:

If hes guilty, then we should confine him to prison??? So he can get 3 hots and a cot? On the taxpayers money?? FUCK. T H A T. SHIT! Reason it away, try to find some bullshit reason that says his environment / upbringing caused it??? No that’s the biggest load of horseshit that is accepted today as an excuse. Nobody besides you makes your decisions. This mother fucker should be left chained in a room with all the parents of his victims, whom would be given weapons, then we let nature take it’s course.

Me:

[Commenter 7], I would love to discuss this with you further, but I doubt you would listen anyway; your idea of scientific research which has been cited, confirmed, reanalyzed for methodological flaws, retested, and evaluated by competing scientists as “just another website” demonstrates your desire to engage in evidence-based discussion. As previously stated, I can provide additional research which demonstrates punishment severity does not impact future crimes from occurring, but it does impact the rate at which these crimes are actually punished ( hint: the answer is “less frequently”–it’s well explained by game theory).

If your understanding of genetics is so twisted that you think a genetic trait absolutely guarantees a behavior, I think I would need to get you up to speed on what “genes” actually are. Allow me to recommend a book to you; it has some flaws which a geneticist or molecular biologist would get annoyed at, but it’s wonderful for an introduction to the interaction of genetics and psychology; “Nature via Nurture” by Matt Ridley. An additional recommended read is “The Blank Slate” by Steven Pinker.

A final point: Total cost of death penalty is 38% greater than total cost of life without the chance of parole; if you want to save money, go for that one.

Commenter 8:

Total cost of death penalty is 38% greater … blah blah blah …. Take this fucker out back… put a bullet in his brain housing group and be done with it. And then when were done.. tie him with a rope to another death row shit bag and toss the two of them in a sewage pond. This does two things, it saves on bullet costs and we get to put the garbage where it belongs.

Me:

Because who cares about legality when you are talking about JUSTICE…

Commenter 8:

Yeah well go ask those kids if this sick fuck was worried about legality or justice…

Commenter 7:

without reading your entire post i have a couple things to say.

First of all you make the comment that i wouldnt listen. I am listening but i think your book smarts and internet browsing are limited to your ideas and not mine or not of most other people in this world. Like i said, its nice to find stuff on the internte to support your thinking. So i take your links to websites and references to books with a grain of salt. But thats usually a pretty good statement to throw out there (you won’t listen anyway) when you feel that someone else has a legit arguement or is willing to go toe to toe with you. I dont agree with your thinking but thats cool that you have a mind of your own to think for yourself.

QUESTION: Are their studies that support the idea that punishment prevents crimes? I would bet there are….

Second, i need to google some of your big words, no, thats not a knock on you. it’s obvious your schooled on a much higher level than I am. And I applaude you for that.

But here is something i just read in the link you posted to [Original writer]. It says that MOST people found LITTLE or no evidence that punishment prevents crimes. Soooo, i guess that means there are some people who think punishment does prevent crimes and there are other people who think there is a little bit of evidence to the same. Thats what I was saying about the internet. You reference a study that reports what you feel is right but in that same report it clearly states that not everyone believes those facts to be right.

And now you reference a book? Again, you can find anything to support your facts. But there are also other books that would prolly go against you right?

And that 38% greater total cost. is that because they stay on death row for years while they are given numerous chances to fight it out in appeals?

the way things work now, I guess I’m willing to spend 38% more and get my moneys worth in this case. Sounds liek a better option to me than letting him live.

Commenter 9:

I bet you wouldn’t be talking about scentific research and understanding why he did this if it was someone you love more than anything that you brought into this world and are raising you would be screaming for this mans death and I don’t care what you say you can’t deny it and so what we all have strong urges except we supress them and are productive members of society then you have people like this man who dosent care what happens to these kids so I don’t care about justice and no it won’t prevent other people from doing it but it will damn sure keep him from doing it again and he DOES NOT deserve prison it’s to easy it’s a day spa were they live more comfortable than alot of our citizens do.

Commenter 6:

Hey Jared. I am a cop. I sit across the table from these sick fuckers and do the job most people only watch on tv. If you think that watching a child rapist rub his own crotch while he is being questioned about brutially raping a defenseless child is just a misunderstood person, You are a MORON. Capital punishment IS a deterrant. The problem is there are too many liberal idiots that have tied the hands of justice that has shown criminals that there is no consequences for their actions. Put oak gallows in front of every court house across America and hang a few and criminals will think more.

Me:

Except my references were scientific publications (notice: jstor=Journal Storage: United States-based online system for archiving academic journals), I won’t use a political or organizational website for a reference because of the chance of bias. I also make sure these papers have numerous citations and are (at least) in agreement with previous studies.

In terms of studies concerning punishment decreases crime; no studies done in the past 80 years show this trend. The studies prior to this which do show a decrease in crime (a few actually do) are either guilty of data manipulation or human psychology has radically changed in the past 100 years. Literally dozens of peer-reviewed studies show no effect of punishment severity on crime.

[Commenter 9], my question is this: do YOU ever have the urge to molest children? I don’t think I ever have; why has this man had those urges? I also don’t have the urge to run out in the street naked while whistling “Yankee Doodle Dandy,” do you? I’m sure someone has… Understanding what causes these behaviors is essential for making our society a better environment to live.

I’m a moron because I look at population level statistics indicating no effect of punishment severity on crime rates? Who knew agreeing with observed reality made me a moron…

Commenter 3:

Amen [Commenter 6], Amen!!!!!!!!!! Jared, I really hope you never procreate.

Me:

I hope so, as well, [Commenter 3]; was that supposed to be an insult? I don’t get it.

Commenter 9:

Never said we have the same urges but I do have a urge to moleste you with a corne husk that’s on fire but I’m supressing it why couldn’t he we are all in control of our own feelings and if he doesn’t a bullet will control it. And just to let you know we are just as hard headed as each other so arguing is pointless.

Me:

Do you really? That is interesting, because, most often, molestation is a result of the desire to control someone and use of inanimate objects is due to impotence. I don’t believe, for a moment, you actually have that urge, but it does serve as an interesting example. Thinking that I am hard-headed misses the point. I’ve presented publications which support my arguments, have you? Show me how killing such an individual ACTUALLY benefits anyone.

Commenter 6:

He can no longer hurt anyone if he’s dead!!! There’s the proof!!!!

Me:

So you are justified in killing someone even if the individual can be isolated from society where he or she could serve as a window into this particular facet of criminal psychology? I see; emotion trumps evidence every time, doesn’t it?

Commenter 6:

And cost all of us to let him live a happy life. Hell yes I’m ok with killing him. If he can never be a positive part of society why should we, society, pay for him to live?

There is no emotion. You see I have told you, I look these assholes in the face. They no longer spark emotion from me. But I KNOW they can’t be rehabilitated so WHY waste money keeping them alive. If your dog killed your kid would you lock it up forever or wouldyou shoot it? I’d shoot it!

Me:

I don’t think I could have composed a phrase to be more authoritarian if I tried; it’s impressive. Tell me, why is it you see criminals as less than human? And do you really think they are that different from you, or me, or anyone else?

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5 Responses to “Wow, I must be completely stupid…”


  1. 1 jaredcormier
    February 23, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    After the above, it rapidly sinks to religion for some reason…

  2. 2 Pliny-the-in-Between
    February 24, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    How’s it going Don Quixote? 😉

    This is one of those topics that should stimulate deep naturalistic discussions instead of the kind of rant you shared. Despite the enormity of social structures, taboos, penalties, revulsion and isolation created by acts against children, it continues. Is there a stronger argument for seeking some biological component than that?

    I admit that I respond with less than sympathy for such individuals and I admit that on one level I would be happy to plug them in the forehead myself. I think that’s fairly natural. It’s also why we need laws because society should represent us at our best and most logical, not our most base instincts.

    But then again I’m apparently one of those bleeding hearts…

  3. 3 jaredcormier
    February 24, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Well, I know of several studies that indicate violent tendencies in OCD patients can be exacerbated by the realization by the patient that his or her behaviors are irrational. There’s also a study on MAO-A (I think) promoter repeat variants indicating low level MAO-A expression increases the likelihood of violent tendencies in adulthood given an abusive childhood. There are several other studies as well which discuss the role of genetics in behavior, but I’m currently in “herpetology” mode, so they evade my memory at present.

  4. 4 Pliny-the-in-Between
    February 24, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Of course there are such studies. The high incidence of recidivism is also well described. The rhetorical question is why this type of research seems to have so little impact on the discussion. Our legal system remains firmly bound to its medieval roots in spite of the progress of science.

  5. 5 Cody
    February 27, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    I admire your clarity and stamina, thanks for fighting the good fight.

    The topic reminds me of this article, by Barry Crimmins, in which he gives a very emotional appeal to not kill child molesters.

    I love Commenter 7:

    without reading your entire post i have a couple things to say.
    First of all you make the comment that i wouldnt listen. I am listening but i think…

    Although I think you did a great job, their responses make my world feel gloomy again.


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